Patika Sutta - Origin of the God Belief | Compare Religions

Patika Sutta - Origin of the God Belief
origin of the belief in a creator
Published On 06/08/2009
sampuna liew

In this excerpt of the Patika Sutta, the Buddha expounds the origin of the belief in a creator.From this sutta,it can be said that the concept of a creator cannot be found in Buddhism in its purest form.

"...There are, Bhaggava, some ascetics and Brahmins who declared as their doctrine that all things begin with the creation by a god, or Brahma. I have gone to them and said: "Reverend sirs, is it true that you declare that all things with the creation by a god, or Brahma?"

"Yes," they replied

"In that case, how do the reverend teachers declare that this came about?" But they could not give an answer, and so they asked me in return and I replied:

"There comes a time, monks, sooner or later after a long period, when this world contracts. At a time of contraction, beings are mostly reborn in the Abhassara Brahma world. And there they dwell, mind-made, feeding on delight, self-luminous, moving through the air, glorious - and they stay like that for a very long time."

"But the time comes, sooner or later after a long period, when this world begins to expand. In this expanding world an empty palace of Brahma appears. And then one being, from exhaustion of his life-span or of his merits, falls from the Abhassara world and arises in the empty Brahma-palace. And there he dwells, mind-made, feeding on delight, self-luminous, moving through the air, glorious - and he stays like that for a very long time."

"Then in this being who has been alone for so long there arises unrest, discontent and worry, and he thinks: ‘Oh, if only some other beings would come here!’ And other beings, from exhaustion of their life-span or of their merits, fall from the Abhassara world and arise in the Brahma palace as companions for this being. And there they dwell, mind-made, … and they stay like that for a very long time."

"And then, monks, that being who first arose there thinks: "I am Brahma, the Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, the All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. These beings were created by me. How so? Because I first had this thought: ‘Oh, if only some other beings would come here!’ That was my wish, and then these beings came into this existence!"

[origin of the belief in the creator]But those beings who arose subsequently think: "This, friends, is Brahma, Great Brahma, the Conqueror, the Unconquered, the All-Seeing, the All-Powerful, the Lord, the Maker and Creator, Ruler, Appointer and Orderer, Father of All That Have Been and Shall Be. How so? We have seen that he was here first, and that we arose after him."

"And this being that arose first is longer-lived, more beautiful and more powerful than they are. And it may happen that some being falls from that realm and arises in this world. Having arisen in this world, he goes forth from the household life into homelessness. Having gone forth, he by means of effort, exertion, application, earnestness and right attention attains to such a degree of mental concentration that he thereby recalls his last existence, but recalls none before that. And he thinks: ‘That Brahma, … he made us, and he is permanent, stable, eternal, not subject to change, the same for ever and ever. But we who were created by that Brahma, we are impermanent, unstable, short-lived, fated to fall away, and we have come to this world.

That, reverend sirs, is how it comes about that you teach that all things began with the creation by a god, or Brahma." And they said, "We have heard this, Reverend Gotama, as you have explained." But I know the first beginning of things… and not being under the sway of what I know I have come to know that quenching by the realization of which the Tathágata cannot fall into perilous ways.

 
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Posted By yasser on 07/08/2009

Brother Sampuna Buddha, in Tittha Sutta, states that the reliance and belief of creation by a supreme being leads to te lack of effort and inaction. This is a significant hinderance in the path to liberation and this is the clear reason y he dint give importance to all supreme god. He wanted humans to be srong in action, and karma to improve upon the condition of this world whih was full of chaos, the way suggested by him was the Nobel eight fold path.Brahma is, however, mentioned in Buddhism. In one of the Jatakas Bhrahma tells a sage, who had come to ask him the Ques "where do the four elements cease", that he indeed is the one who is te father of all who came or are to come and is the most knowing but the sage must go to Buddha, who only can answer this question completely. As far as my honesty is concerned asking questions and having a sprit of enquiry in any sphere is not dishonesty.

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Posted By sampuna on 07/03/2009

Bro Yasser, i want you to be honest when you talk about religion.Please do not say 'the buddha thought'.When we read between your lines,you're trying to say the Buddha did not want to teach the Dhamma fully. well, the sutta itself is clear on the belief in god,that's the Buddha's stand and you have to respect that.It's not your cup of tea to disprove god or say that god 'thinks' he's god coz there were some delusion in him. well,you'll just accept that as the Buddhist's point of view as a matter of factly without trying to disprove it by explaining in a way which the Buddha himself didn't. even Nibbana itself is not an entity,how could it be 'god' in the abrahamic sense? and mind you,you comment that 'ones karma brings one closer to Nibbana' is laughable. what brings one closer to Nibbana? the very first Sutta,the Dhammacakkapavatana Sutta has already mentioned : walking the Noble Eightfold path.It's the extinguishing of karma that Nibbana IS.

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Posted By yasser on 06/07/2009

Buddha did not mention God in his teachings as he thought it above ordinary humans to deal with the question and nuances of God and God head so he decided to keep the faithfull without any faith in god. To him ones Karma brings him closer to Nirvana, the ultimate aim of a human. Now how much closer this Nirvana is to God can be debated upon.

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Posted By sampuna on 03/29/2010

well Mr Yasser,it is crystal clear that Buddhism works without the belief in creator god,unlike Islam which is dependent on the concept.Hence,this unique features should be respected as it is.Don't come out with weird ideas like 'oh,the Buddha didn't want to teach these people about god..etc'.It's wrong. Can i say your prophet tried to push some moral values into the people by inducing in them the fear in an imaginary god?that, to me is questionable too.

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